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拖動(dòng)一架60噸的A320飛機(jī),假如舍棄內(nèi)燃機(jī)而用電動(dòng)機(jī)......

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1#
發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 12:41:41 | 只看該作者 回帖獎(jiǎng)勵(lì) |倒序?yàn)g覽 |閱讀模式
前幾天,問了一個(gè)飛機(jī)拖車的問題,大家熱情幫助,在此感謝大家。
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0 [: X, z- o/ E! C: \$ {9 t現(xiàn)在又有一個(gè)新的問題:拖動(dòng)一架60噸的A320飛機(jī)以10KM/小時(shí)的速度滑行需要50KW,現(xiàn)在的拖車極其笨重,因?yàn)槭褂玫氖莾?nèi)燃機(jī)。假如使用電動(dòng)機(jī),電動(dòng)機(jī)和電池的重量最低可以達(dá)到多少?
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5 w: N8 I/ [# O第一是電池:我知道電池的重量很大,但是我想:拖車的作用只是把飛機(jī)從航站樓拖到跑道上,大概5公里,半小時(shí),因此需要25千瓦時(shí)的電量即可,所以只要一塊25千瓦時(shí)的電池即可,每拖一次飛機(jī)換一塊電池(不嫌麻煩,先降低重量)。按照目前的技術(shù),有電池既可以有25千瓦時(shí)的電量,又能輸出50KW的功率嗎?如果沒有,在保證70KW功率的情況下,可以提高電量(可以多拖幾次飛機(jī)),但是要求還是重量盡可能低,多大的電池合適呢?
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2 |' G$ C0 q+ ^5 x2 a第二是電機(jī):關(guān)于電機(jī),我在網(wǎng)上能查到的最輕的50KW電機(jī)是60KG,據(jù)說國外還有更輕的。最輕的可以達(dá)到多少?

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2#
發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 13:01:25 | 只看該作者
寶上有大把的電動(dòng)牽引車可以提供,還可以租,嫩為何不與賣家聊聊?
3#
發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 13:03:27 | 只看該作者
石油燃料能量密度大。

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好大俠,那是T,渦輪增壓的。怎么可能跟自然吸氣的比?  發(fā)表于 2014-7-4 22:27
118KW  發(fā)表于 2014-7-4 20:15
zerowing 大眾1.4T,已經(jīng)116KW了。  發(fā)表于 2014-7-4 20:15
你全加上能有200kg?  發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 17:01
加上變數(shù)器、散熱器和油箱的重量呢?  發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 14:11
這些不是關(guān)鍵。全鋁制的1.8L發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)有近百千瓦的功率,全重不會(huì)超過30kg。同樣的50kw的電動(dòng)機(jī)能輕多少?靠這里減肥完全就是找樂。  發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 13:14
4#
發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 13:04:00 | 只看該作者
先搞清楚最低重量需求再考慮是否該減肥和如何減肥。POWERPUSH只有55.1kw的功率。一輛思域就有103kw,但是你拿思域去拖一個(gè)試試?

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一腳油門壓到底,發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)極限飛轉(zhuǎn),輪胎在水泥地面上打滑,接著濃煙滾滾夾雜著膠皮燒糊的拌隨著還有重機(jī)油味,這場面換誰一刻都呆不了。  發(fā)表于 2014-7-5 21:32
你就算是直接考滾輪托,也相當(dāng)于車尾有一個(gè)至少半噸的向上或向下的力。你自己平衡不了,就別提拖別人了。  發(fā)表于 2014-7-4 22:32
同樣的,你車身輕,你發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)功率再大,輪子上的動(dòng)力不夠,一腳下去,發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)嗷嗷叫,輪子在地上打滑。沒意義的。  發(fā)表于 2014-7-4 22:30
這個(gè)你用不到算。下次誰家車陷泥坑里了,你用思域去拖一次就知道了。思域能跑到200,或者或說能完全把發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)的功率釋放出來,靠的全是空氣動(dòng)力。不然,就那1.4的全重,早飛了。  發(fā)表于 2014-7-4 22:29
zerowing 小車功率再大,貌似也拖不了60T的A320.(這個(gè)應(yīng)該算一下)。大家不是一個(gè)頻道的話題。  發(fā)表于 2014-7-4 20:19
思域峰值扭矩4200轉(zhuǎn),最高功率6000多轉(zhuǎn)。點(diǎn)一腳油門發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)功率就到。你感覺沒上去是你的車沒法一下子跑起來。  發(fā)表于 2014-7-3 12:09
大俠,你這是胡說。不是發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)功率提不上去,而是你汽車加速不能瞬間提上去。這跟發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)功率有毛關(guān)系?  發(fā)表于 2014-7-3 12:06
思域的103KW在非常高的轉(zhuǎn)速下才能達(dá)到,向這種較慢速度的功率肯定要小于103KW.  發(fā)表于 2014-7-3 11:14
Powerpush,55.1kw,自重4.5噸。思域全重不過1.5噸。你覺得你把思域頭上那點(diǎn)東西都拆了,能減少3噸?看問題要抓關(guān)鍵。你就算是滾輪驅(qū)動(dòng),你牽引車本身就可以只要1.5噸了?  發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 17:00
思域的問題就在于自身太輕,不能拖,要是改成滾輪驅(qū)動(dòng)飛機(jī)輪胎就行了  發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 14:05
5#
發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 13:05:04 | 只看該作者
飛機(jī)上有燃?xì)獍l(fā)電機(jī)的好像。
6#
發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 13:07:28 | 只看該作者
會(huì)不會(huì)拖車輕了,輪子與地面摩擦力不夠打滑?

點(diǎn)評

俺也這么懷疑。  發(fā)表于 2014-7-3 18:42
7#
發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 13:10:00 | 只看該作者
50KW的內(nèi)燃機(jī)很重嗎?柴油機(jī)吧,如果為了輕便?梢圆捎
( [4 z! O5 t) @8 l(1)小型飛機(jī)用的活塞發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī),但是要配置變速箱。+ ?8 M0 E; j- C" z) {/ `. e% n( K
(2)摩托車賽車發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī),連變速箱都是現(xiàn)成的。! y! x8 ~' }$ Y/ B# ~4 b# j- o
這兩種方案達(dá)到50KW也是輕易的,功率密度都比電池大的多。

點(diǎn)評

變數(shù)箱的重量也不低啊,同樣的電機(jī)有的扭矩卻可以拖動(dòng)飛機(jī)。  發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 14:06

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8#
 樓主| 發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 14:10:12 | 只看該作者
有廠家在研制電動(dòng)起落架,如果用電機(jī)和電池驅(qū)動(dòng)滾輪摩擦輪胎,重量能控制在多少?
9#
發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 15:29:38 | 只看該作者
大俠,拖車只需把飛機(jī)往后推100米左右,之后飛機(jī)自己轉(zhuǎn)彎滑行去跑道的
10#
發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 15:30:00 | 只看該作者
本帖最后由 動(dòng)靜之機(jī) 于 2014-7-2 15:31 編輯 ! z& e, B7 V# w+ b
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這個(gè)鏈接顯示,9年前就有嘗試在前輪上裝電動(dòng)機(jī)構(gòu)了。
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2 n3 s  Y& B- Hhttp://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/tests-prove-electric-drive-concept-200792/1 l% N/ H0 T7 U  @, y$ X' T- ?' g

3 _1 i0 @7 z3 o6 i& l2 ~Tests prove electric-drive conceptSource:
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00:00 9 Aug 2005
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Success of Boeing 767 trial prompts effort to develop production version of powered nose-wheel system for taxiing
Boeing and electric-drive specialist Chorus Motors are in “active discussions” over possible follow-on work on a powered nose-wheel system for airliners following a successful series of tests on a proof-of-concept motor on a 767.
The ultimate plan would be to develop a fully integrated electric-drive system to allow aircraft to move around the airport without using their engines or tow tugs. The result, say the developers, would be more energy efficiency, increased engine life and reductions in maintenance costs and harmful environmental emissions.
“Overall, the results were extremely encouraging,” says Chorus Motors aerospace applications programme manager Robert Carman. Future challenges include making a “weight neutral” system, packaging within the existing nose wheel gear envelope, system integration and ensuring flight-critical levels of reliability. The tests were conducted in co-operation with Air Canada which supplied a 767-200 and crew. The pilots performed ground manoeuvres on slopes and terrains “typical of those at airports around the world”, says Boeing Phantom Works, which led the effort with Chorus. Evaluations included reversing away from a gate and taxiing forward to a runway. Tests also were performed at ramp temperatures exceeding 49˚C (120˚F) and at loads of up to 94% of the maximum take-off weight of the aircraft.
“We were in the neighbourhood of 300,000lb [136,200kg],” says Carman. “Up until now the technology has been lacking because no-one has been able to produce this sort of power density,” he adds. The Chorus-Boeing developed nose-wheel power device is based on a concept called the Meschon system.
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GUY NORRIS/LOS ANGELES

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Design requirements: extra traction, increased torque
Developed specifically for traction and higher low-speed torque loads, and applications for which starting torque requirements are greater than continuous torque requirements, the electric-drive system uses multi-phase motors in which the windings connect several inverter terminals to each other, and are not grounded in the conventional way.
The different connectors act like different gear rates, and the motor can electronically change “gears” by operating the inverter at the harmonics of the drive frequency. The system therefore uses harmonic drive to essentially fool the drive electronics into thinking they are operating at a higher speed.
The net benefit is that the motor drive is capable of achieving five times the torque speed of a similarly sized unit and is therefore much smaller and lighter.
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這個(gè)可以有!  發(fā)表于 2014-7-7 09:35
我想說的就是圖中這種狀態(tài),同樣的功率,究竟是電動(dòng)好還是內(nèi)燃機(jī)好?現(xiàn)實(shí)是飛機(jī)廠家用的的確是電動(dòng)技術(shù),空客用的是燃料電池技術(shù)的電動(dòng)起落架。我覺得內(nèi)燃機(jī)再輕,也接近瓶頸了,而電池技術(shù)正在逐步提高。  發(fā)表于 2014-7-2 20:43

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